Discussion: Mountain Regulation and Enforcement | Forum

Admin 2010-03-03 22:28:19

If you think it can be done better B) please tell us how. This conversation could be very instructive, I'm hoping to continue drawing from the well of local knowledge. I was surprised by the intensity of feelings about the rules and their enforcement. Sounded a bit like Liberals vs Libertarians in there for a second... :whistle: If you have a second: * Do the local rules need to be revised? Why? * Do enforcement policies need to be changed? How?

Kuri (2010-03-03 23:31:52)

Some comments:

1) If we are going to have rules they should apply to all. There has been some less than equal application of the existing Niseko rules this season and I think that sucks. In these two cases it was the Japanese who were made to adhere to the letter of the law and paid with it with their passes (and jobs!) while the foreigners got away scot free.

2) By having gates that are opened and closed, the very act of opening a gate is saying that it is safe - relatively speaking. It appears to me the resorts are putting itself in a pretty grey area by choosing that system and then throwing the "all-care, no responsibility" line out there.

3) I think the current gate system is good, but that's not to say it couldn't be improved. Every time I'm up at the peak I see people who are way out of their depth, and while I know it's their choice & their responsibility it goes further than that if I happen to be on the hill when there's an accident. Forgive my selfishness, but I don't want to be around when someone brings a slide down on themselves. I don't want to have to try in vain to search for someone without a beacon by probing several hundred square metres of terrain. Then to recover a body...

You can talk about self-responsibility all you want but you'd have to be pretty tough not to be shaken up by that sort of experience. At least I would find it difficult to simply chuckle "so what" and say it was that persons choice!

Simple Fix: Shovel, Probe, Beacon, Buddy.

You can never make the backcountry 100% safe, but you could make it safer for all users by applying some very basic, internationally standard rules.

Go Native (2010-03-04 11:53:39)

For me it's simple. Niseko since the inception of the Niseko Rules has an incredible record of safety in terms of avalanches. Not one death! It's hard for me to understand anyone pushing for stricter controlled access through the gates based on this record.

I'm not suggesting that this record will remain unblemished forever, that's very unlikely. Still a few things about carrying avi gear;

It in no way whatsoever actually reduces the risk of an avi happening.
It in no way guarantees that those with gear have any knowledge or experience in using it.
Can lead people into a false sense of security leading them to ski terrain and take risks they otherwise wouldn't.

It would also dramatically reduce the number of people heading out through the gates. This alone is likely to allow greater loading of slopes making them more dangerous.

Also in my opinion one of the main reasons Niseko has become so popular is due to it's open access to off-piste and sidecountry terrain. For many people it allows them to have truly the most incredible skiing experience of their entire lives. Having such an experience is worth a little risk isn't it?? I'd prefer not to restrict such experiences to only a select group of people with gear. This need by some to try and make it as safe as absolutely humanly possible just isn't worth the restriction of access to many people. In my experience most people are more than happy to take a little risk to have potentially life changing experiences. My first run off the peak in waist deep powder was certianly life changing! I ended up living here...

Those pushing for stricter access in my opinion are just pushing an ieaology that in no way takes into account the specific risk factors of this mountain. If it was a region that had regular large avalanches and regualar deaths like in parts of Canada, US or Europe then I would understand and would likely fully support stricter access but we don't live in an region like that.

Kuri (2010-03-04 12:22:13)

Go Native:

I'm not about limiting access - rather opening it up. With a basic set of precautions in place to help ensure continued access to Niseko's great snow & backcountry for ever.

While what you say is basically correct it denies the fundamental truth that there is a strong correlation between those with their own gear and those with more backcountry experience, training and certification. And people with experience and training use that to to determine the likelihood of a slide on a particular slope on a given day. They travel safer. They are more capable at reading the snowpack and the terrain. Basically, they are far less likely to knowingly put themselves in harms way than people with no such experience.

I think the argument that just because it hasn't happened here recently means that we shouldn't take precautions is kind of simplistic...

Go Native (2010-03-04 14:08:24)

But if you make it a requirement to have gear to access slopes then you will have plenty of people who buy it without having any idea how to use it. Having gear is no guarantee they'll have anymore knowledge.

Your attitude appears to be that even though the safety record here is nothing short of miraculous we should still do more to make it safer. Believe me I'm as amazed as anyone that there hasn't been an avi death here in so long but it's a testament to the relative stability of the snowpack here compared to most other high snowfall regions of the world.
And I'm obviously not so concerned for my fellow man as you are. I have an attitude that we should allow people to take risks in life. It's when risking our lives we often have the greatest experiences we remember for a lifetime. I get concerned when the safety police keep trying to restrict our ability to risk our lives. In many countries this has occurred due to litigation issues but here in Japan we don't have that problem. People die all the time, 100's just died in the earthquake in Chile. People should be able to risk their lives whilst choosing to do the things they love. I don't believe based on the safety record here that the risk is ridiculously high and warrants further restrictions on access.

digglar (2010-03-07 15:00:09)

let me take my dog up the Gondola in Hirafu again.

The looks he gives me when I leave him in the car is eating away at my soul...

Six8ten (2010-03-08 07:59:43)

[b]digglar wrote:[/b]
[quote]let me take my dog up the Gondola in Hirafu again.

The looks he gives me when I leave him in the car is eating away at my soul...[/quote]

What, did they confiscate Woodley's lift pass for going out of bounds?

BreadMan (2010-03-17 20:21:48)

Go Native: Get your head out of the sand.

If you dont have a beacon, shovel, probe and a friend you shouldnt be in the backcountry.

Go Native (2010-03-18 09:00:39)

Um yeah, sure thing Breadman. Thanks for setting me straight. I'll be sure never to head into the backcountry ever again by myself and without all my avi gear. I promise! :P

themagnate (2010-03-18 16:49:16)

...because you never know [img size=448]http://niseko.kutchannel.net/images/fbfiles/images/BePrepared.jpg[/img]

BreadMan (2010-03-18 18:20:06)

Get in line grommies...

COMMENT